T-Mobile USA is doomed?????

[greenblood]

perhaps I underestimate the massive damage caused by iPhone
stopped by a corp store today, talked to a rep
he told me NONE activation today and yesterday in entire store
why?!
no matter the decent incentives (1k NW and @Home), and that iPhone can beat T-Mobile down that easily?????
I don't believe it at all

[tmobilefan]

perhaps I underestimate the massive damage caused by iPhone
stopped by a corp store today, talked to a rep
he told me NONE activation today and yesterday in entire store
why?!
no matter the decent incentives (1k NW and @Home), and that iPhone can beat T-Mobile down that easily?????
I don't believe it at all

I think T-Mobile needs to speed up on everything. They seem like they are falling behind.

[Railroader]

It's almost as if DT wants them to fail, so they can sell them off or something :eek: That said, I think once the iPhone newness has worn off, people will get back to reality and realize the iPhone isn't "all that and a bag of chips" ;)

[Alex]

T-Mobile isn't going anywhere. They've got too much invested in the USA.

[darkjedi]

perhaps I underestimate the massive damage caused by iPhone
stopped by a corp store today, talked to a rep
he told me NONE activation today and yesterday in entire store
why?!
no matter the decent incentives (1k NW and @Home), and that iPhone can beat T-Mobile down that easily?????
I don't believe it at all

You're basing this off of two days worth of sales, Matt stop being dramatic!!!

[Matt]

I'm not dramatic. :D

I was at TMo Saturday and they were busy as always. DT has too much time and money invested in TMo USA. They are not letting it go. And lets not forget how "powerful" DT is in the world of mobile phone carriers.

[darkjedi]

I'm not dramatic. :D

I was at TMo Saturday and they were busy as always. DT has too much time and money invested in TMo USA. They are not letting it go. And lets not forget how "powerful" DT is in the world of mobile phone carriers.

No no no not you Matt, greenblood matt!!!!!

Sorry for the confusion!!

[Matt]

I know. I was just teasing. :)

[greenblood]

this is funny
iPhone brings negative effect to at&t
calling is bad this week (unable to make calls, no sound, dropping)
and it does not only happen on me, other co-workers have similar problem too
I just don't understand how come at&t can't handle the 3/4 million customer increase
it's not only happen on NYC, it also happens on other markets as well

[Scooby214]

this is funny
iPhone brings negative effect to at&t
calling is bad this week (unable to make calls, no sound, dropping)
and it does not only happen on me, other co-workers have similar problem too
I just don't understand how come at&t can't handle the 3/4 million customer increase
it's not only happen on NYC, it also happens on other markets as well
You know, if AT&T wouldn't oversell their network capacity, they wouldn't be telling the FCC that they need half the available spectrum. But they are more interested in quantity than quality.

I wonder if the AT&T execs have network issues like everyone else?

[mth785]

It's almost as if DT wants them to fail, so they can sell them off or something :eek: That said, I think once the iPhone newness has worn off, people will get back to reality and realize the iPhone isn't "all that and a bag of chips" ;)

Soon as the newness wears off they will release an updated 3G version that is open to third party apps.

When the second gen iPhone is released I will be getting one even if it requires me leaving t-mobile.

[j__1]

From unusual reporting structures in Germany (Dotson reports to DT and not TMO International), to the same challenge in the US, T-Mobile is certainly in a challenging spot.

From a turnover perspective, Bellevue has been a massacre. For nearly 2 years, TMO has been without a COO. While the CIO left in December, the infrastructure hasn't moved forward in years (actually worse in some areas) to meet the needs that exist today. The CMO (complete with his 'package' pants) met the door earlier this year. An overwhelming number of top and VP positions have been filled externally over the past 24 months, some due to C-level changes, most not.

Even the distribution and sales channels are mess… and I’m not talking about where the rubber hits the road (#1). Seriously, Customer Care running everything but Retail? If it was a temporary 1 or 2 quarter transformation initiative, perhaps I would understand, but…. this is a political nightmare.

In my opinion, Dotson needs to go... TMO is simply unable to execute. Just look at My5 and @Home... these projects went on FOREVER. In the meantime, competitors were able to beat TMO to market. Let’s not forget that these were key initiatives that were rooted in the Big 5. These execution challenges are still very much valid... due to turnover, worse?

At this point in time, T-Mobile appears trapped between the big boys playing the device game and regional players competing on price. This really is not a good place to be… especially when your target demo is youth and family.

I think the next 2 quarters will be very interesting. Rene (still a newbie) and DT continue under a lot of pressure to perform, and Germany continues to spout support for their “growth engine” known to all in the US. Now, if that engine even happens to sputter a bit….

[wirelessforever]

I found your observations to be insightful. TMo is in need to MUCH better leadership. With that said, these other predictions by some of doom and gloom are laughable. PacBell Wireless/AT&T/Cingular/AT&T or whatever name they are using this week is a H O R R I B L E company and always has been. And the iPhone is a joke. Nice device but certainly not revolutionary.

TMo does need to clean up their stores, ramp up their phone selection and get a sharp CMO. But predictions of the end of TMo are utterly ridiculous.


From unusual reporting structures in Germany (Dotson reports to DT and not TMO International), to the same challenge in the US, T-Mobile is certainly in a challenging spot.

From a turnover perspective, Bellevue has been a massacre. For over 2 years, TMO has been without a COO. While the CIO left in December, the infrastructure hasn't moved forward in years (actually worse in some areas) to meet the needs that exist today. The CMO (complete with his 'package' pants) met the door earlier this year. An overwhelmingly number of top and VP positions have been filled externally over the past 24 months, some due to C-level changes, most not.

Even the distribution and sales channels are mess… and I’m not talking about where the rubber hits the road (#1). Seriously, Customer Care running everything but Retail? If it was a temporary 1 or 2 quarter transformation initiative, perhaps I would understand, but…. this is a political nightmare.

In my opinion, Dotson needs to go... TMO is simply unable to execute. Just look at My5 and @Home... these projects went on FOREVER. In the meantime, competitors were able to beat TMO to market. Let’s not forget that these were key initiatives that were rooted in the Big 5. These execution challenges are still very much valid... due to turnover, worse?

At this point in time, T-Mobile appears trapped between the big boys playing the device game and regional players competing on price. This really is not a good place to be… especially when your target demo is youth and family.

I think the next 2 quarters will be very interesting. Rene (still a newbie) and DT continue under a lot of pressure to perform, and Germany continues to spout support for their “growth engine” known to all in the US. Now, if that engine even happens to sputter a bit….

[Railroader]

. AT&T ......is a H O R R I B L E company and always has been. .

Why do you say that?

[j__1]

Why do you say that?

To say there have been challenges between at&t and T-Mobile over the years in Cali would be an understatement... especially for engineers working at either company during the network sharing days.

There is also a cadre of former AT&T Wireless employees at TMO corporate that curse at the thought of their former employer. An employer that, partially due to a kamikaze dive into Siebel, recognized negative net adds in Q4 a few years back and was bought.

Let’s be fair… all of the major telecoms are pretty much “H O R R I B L E.” I don’t know… perhaps the title of this thread should ask if telecoms are doomed.

[j__1]

And the iPhone is a joke. Nice device but certainly not revolutionary.

I’m not even going to attempt to stay away from such an audacious and unprovoked attack on a device I worship. :)

I remember playing with the Nokia 6190 for the first time after living with a Motorola Microtac. I was amazed with the easy to navigate menus and useful features… and while not understanding at first the value of SMS, quickly found myself immersed in over 10 distinct conversations.

That experience doesn’t begin to approach the iPhone. Simply put, this device stays out of my way. For a time I found it fun to dive into each and every phone in search of every customization that happened to be buried deep in some obscure menu. Pardon my language, but these days I just want to get on and get off.

Separately, here’s what I think of the at&t and Apple relationship: the fruit is going to split the at&t customer base and walk away with the prize: their most profitable customers. What I find amazing is the utter lack of at&t anywhere in terms of the iPhone (besides bad press). Besides the name of the network, the only other at&t artifact is a Safari bookmark for account management (just takes you to the website to manually log-in). It seems that at&t hasn’t been satisfied with simply pissing customers off… they’re providing gift wrapping service as well. We're not going to know the true size of at&t's customer base for the next few years... and that's beyond just wireless (bundling has its drawbacks in this case).

Seriously, look out a few years… we have Clearwire/DBS, Microsoft and Google lobbying the FCC, cable companies, software radios, and who knows what. I would expect a smarter at&t to have a much longer exclusive deal along with some shared product management and marketing resources (or at least some sort of training). If they think this is just about another device, they’re dead wrong.

In my opinion, the industry should have forced Apple to go the MVNO route, making them spend more resources while being more open to attack (if they chose to enter the market). I must be missing something (more than 1 I'm sure).

[greenblood]

I found your observations to be insightful. TMo is in need to MUCH better leadership. With that said, these other predictions by some of doom and gloom are laughable. PacBell Wireless/AT&T/Cingular/AT&T or whatever name they are using this week is a H O R R I B L E company and always has been. And the iPhone is a joke. Nice device but certainly not revolutionary.

TMo does need to clean up their stores, ramp up their phone selection and get a sharp CMO. But predictions of the end of TMo are utterly ridiculous.

welcome wirelessforever, you found this
but T-Mobile is WAY TOO SLOW, only push out 1k to counter iPhone, what the.....?
the phone selection is not attractive either, and there's still some customers prefer carrier based on phone selection
every scene gives me feeling DT wants to let go of US division, and I hate to see it happens
but one thing is sure, Dotson needs to go, so the marketing manager

[darkjedi]

I really think its a sad reflection when at our last district meeting a show of hands was asked for based on how many reps think T-mobile has the best wireless service in the Chicago land area. There were 35 people in the room and 9 raised their hands and that was mostly managers who have so bought into the corporate garbage they wouldn't know bad service from good service if it was stuck to their forehead.

My district manager is all over us since the hotspot at home district sales lowers number than 10 sales, FOR ALL stores and thats 11 stores. 10 sales in 10 days...thats a terrific average for what was being billed as a "life changing" wireless experience.

Nobody up above understands its the phone selection that hurt us both before hotspot and now with it. Its criminal to release a service as "revolutionary" as this and give it only a minimal chance at success right from the getgo. This is the make or break time, they had a test market to iron out the problems and now thats done with, its national so support it with all the strength a fortune 500 company can muster.

I really wish I had more faith personally in the company that pays for my friday night beerfests.

[greenblood]

Wirelessly posted (Dell X50v and/or SE K790a: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; PPC; 240x320))

I really think its a sad reflection when at our last district meeting a show of hands was asked for based on how many reps think T-mobile has the best wireless service in the Chicago land area. There were 35 people in the room and 9 raised their hands and that was mostly managers who have so bought into the corporate garbage they wouldn't know bad service from good service if it was stuck to their forehead.

My district manager is all over us since the hotspot at home district sales lowers number than 10 sales, FOR ALL stores and thats 11 stores. 10 sales in 10 days...thats a terrific average for what was being billed as a "life changing" wireless experience.

Nobody up above understands its the phone selection that hurt us both before hotspot and now with it. Its criminal to release a service as "revolutionary" as this and give it only a minimal chance at success right from the getgo. This is the make or break time, they had a test market to iron out the problems and now thats done with, its national so support it with all the strength a fortune 500 company can muster.

I really wish I had more faith personally in the company that pays for my friday night beerfests.

what the f.....???!
this is way too idiotic
perhaps there's ONE AND ONLY word in their head
Samsung

[darkjedi]

Wirelessly posted (Dell X50v and/or SE K790a: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; PPC; 240x320))



what the f.....???!
this is way too idiotic
perhaps there's ONE AND ONLY word in their head
Samsung


Are you calling me idiotic or the management I slave for?

[greenblood]

Wirelessly posted (Dell X50v and/or SE K790a: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; PPC; 240x320))

Wirelessly posted (Dell X50v and/or SE K790a: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; PPC; 240x320))



what the f.....???!
this is way too idiotic
perhaps there's ONE AND ONLY word in their head
Samsung


Are you calling me idiotic or the management I slave for?

this is not you, Dave

[darkjedi]

Wirelessly posted (Dell X50v and/or SE K790a: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; PPC; 240x320))



this is not you, Dave

I was going to say, after all we have been through!!!

[chokaay]

I was going to say, after all we have been through!!!

LOL! Awwwwwwwwwww... :o

[wirelessforever]

Why do you say that?

For all of the same reasons that I gave you when you asked me the same question months ago on HoFo.

[conchshell]

In not too distant future, for the committed, it will be possible to unlock the iPhone and use it with T-Mobile. What would be neat is to stick a T-mobile ringtone on there (which will also be possible in not too distant future imo) just to stick it to at&t. I would not hold my breath on 3G btw, it apparently was kept at 2G on purpose b/c at&t felt the total bandwidth load of the devices would be too heavy at 3G. Until the network ramps up it won't be released I don't think. Europe is another issue of course.

What I really don't get is why T-Mobile USA is not more aggressive. Why are they letting HTC Touch be released in Germany where they have secured iPhone pretty much when they actually need it here where they are competing with the iPhone? Makes no sense to me.

[j__1]

What I really don't get is why T-Mobile USA is not more aggressive. Why are they letting HTC Touch be released in Germany where they have secured iPhone pretty much when they actually need it here where they are competing with the iPhone? Makes no sense to me.
You really don’t think DT has any real clue about what's going on in the US do you? T-Mobile is not an integrated company. Worse, the left hand really has no idea what the right is doing... or even really care for that matter (with the exception of $$$, of course).

That's not to say there haven't been efforts to leverage buying power when negotiating with our handset friends... although I thought Sue Swenson (former COO and member of T-Mobile International's Board of Management) was leading efforts in the device arena. Did anyone pick up the baton when she ran off with Amp'd?

I'm guessing a majority of DT's focus continues to be on Germany, where they continue to take a beating. That's the downside of being a government controlled monopoly. One day you may find yourself a public company surrounded by competitors... and to top it off, you are a proud owner of a bloated workforce left over from yester year…. with a heavily regulated labor market. :rolleyes:

[brad15]

While i am happy with T-Mobile for the most part, there are a few areas that definitely need improvement. Phone selection is definitely one of them.

When i went to upgrade my phone, all they had were crappy samsungs and two nokia phones, both nokias were horrible, the Xpress music and 6133 (i will never own a 6133 again, that thing had so many problems)

This is the ONLY area where Cingular beats T-Mobile. Cingular's service is horrible, the CS is even worse. I cant even believe that Cingular has the right to even price themselves anywhere near Verizon. Everyone i call on cingular has been pretty much going to Voice Mail for a week or two, and when they do get the call, it usually drops or garbles pretty bad.. i am glad i got rid of cingular a long time ago!

[narunetto]

I think once T-Mobile finally rolls out 3G, they will get a lot more customers that have been waiting to switch from AT&T but didn't want to because of the 3G.

[milkbone98]

I dont think that Joe Average cares about 3G, Hotspot at home, MyFaves, or anything aside from great service at a great price. Period. Sure, it makes for great commercials and forum banter, but the majority of the sheep just want a phone that works all the time, and costs the least. Everyone wants a free POS with good coverage. Some people want a phone that looks nice, but they could care less if it has 3G or a 5MP camera. Look at Motorolas, they are a great phone with a fine featureset and they outsell everyone else in the US, and are in second to Nokia worldwide. Why? Because it is a phone first with great battery and RF, and a gadget second. While being the industry design innovation leader. T-Mo needs to see that in the US, most people want a burger and fries more than caviar and crackers. In my area when 850 roaming came to be, sales skyrocketed. The key, IMO, is spending money on coverage rather than gimmicks.

[j__1]

I always wondered why TMO didn't take a more aggressive route with landline displacement years ago. I imagine @Home's orignail strategic goal was incremental adds... but it was two years late. Landlines were dragging the large carriers down.... now they're leveraging existing relationships to provide quadplay. Once upon time, TMO could have leveraged their wireless only infrastructure. Now they're stuck trying to find gimmicks to offset the commodization of voice traffic. To top it off, the lucrative messaging product is on under attack. I imagine that's part of the reason they're a Microsoft shop. They're hunkering down praying for rain... I bet they'd like to be more aggressive, but Germany needs the money to offset there losses at home.

[narunetto]

I dont think that Joe Average cares about 3G, Hotspot at home, MyFaves, or anything aside from great service at a great price. Period. Sure, it makes for great commercials and forum banter, but the majority of the sheep just want a phone that works all the time, and costs the least. Everyone wants a free POS with good coverage. Some people want a phone that looks nice, but they could care less if it has 3G or a 5MP camera. Look at Motorolas, they are a great phone with a fine featureset and they outsell everyone else in the US, and are in second to Nokia worldwide. Why? Because it is a phone first with great battery and RF, and a gadget second. While being the industry design innovation leader. T-Mo needs to see that in the US, most people want a burger and fries more than caviar and crackers. In my area when 850 roaming came to be, sales skyrocketed. The key, IMO, is spending money on coverage rather than gimmicks.

Now, while I believe you some what on the "no average person cares about 3g" is true, there are a lot of business-men out there that would probably switch right over because of it, as a lot of businesses are now requiring you to do a lot of stuff on the go, so 3g makes it come in handy. Also, I think if T-Mobile knew that no one wanted 3g, they wouldn't implement it. People want it, so it must some how boost their sales.

[redwildebeast]

t-mo USA is not doomed in any respect. and DT will not sell their second largest moneymaker. anyone that thinks otherwise has no business sense whatsoever.

[milkbone98]

Now, while I believe you some what on the "no average person cares about 3g" is true, there are a lot of business-men out there that would probably switch right over because of it, as a lot of businesses are now requiring you to do a lot of stuff on the go, so 3g makes it come in handy. Also, I think if T-Mobile knew that no one wanted 3g, they wouldn't implement it. People want it, so it must some how boost their sales.


Oh, I definately agree with you, Im referencing "Joe Average", I wasnt including the business custys in my post. :)

[darkjedi]

t-mo USA is not doomed in any respect. and DT will not sell their second largest moneymaker. anyone that thinks otherwise has no business sense whatsoever.

I'm not sure that its that cut and dry when it comes to them considering selling off their biggest asset. Assets have been sold off dozens of times this year alone by companies who needed to downsize or use other methods to return to profitability.

In this age of wireless consolidation I wouldn't remove anything from the table as far as one company being sold, one company being bought etc...

It in fact may be T-mobile's profitability that makes it an attractive purchase to another company or a private group with deep pockets.

[wirelessforever]

:( You're welcome to buy a lame, blind horse but that doesn't make it a wise idea.

It is interesting that you take efforts to point out how much you "worship" the iPhone but don't defend the statement with anything concrete. I'm not surprised. As a famous man once said: "Baloney knows it better avoid the meat grinder."

Across the Internet, the critical reviews have been very harsh about the iPhone. Of course Steve Jobs' cult worshippers could be counted on to rush out and stand in line for days to pay big money to buy dog droppings if Mr. Jobs packaged his dog poopie with an Apple logo and told his culties that that it was the coolest thing to buy. The mindless robots that follow this man are amazing to watch. MadTV did a hillarious skit on this. I recommend it heartily for a good laugh. It can be accessed here ... YouTube - Madtv iphone (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xgZKjJt-TkU)

There are countless writeups on shortcomings of the iPhone. You may access the following link to several reviewers talking about this flawed product ... YouTube - iPhone trashed by Robert Scoble and others @ ces in bloghaus (http://youtube.com/watch?v=2aRK0_YZDt4&mode=related&search)=

There are reasons many business resource authorities have recommended a "no buy" on the iPhone. Here are a few reasons ...

Top 5 Technical drawbacks of the iPhone

Never before has the launch of a mobile phone generated so much buzz than with the iPhone which marks Apple's entry into the cell phone market. Steve Jobs has high hopes for the iPhone and plans to capture 1% of the mobile phone market which may seem small, but it is not as 1 billion handsets were sold last year which would mean 10 million iPhones, not to mention that it is an expensive phone at $499. Coming back to the topic here are the Top 5 technical drawbacks of the iPhone.

5) 2 Megapixel camera - Apple did put all the latest stuff from accelerometers to light sensors then why stick to a dated 2 Megapixel sensor when its main rival the Nokia N95 sports a 5 Megapixel camera.

4) Battery Life - It is much obvious that when you have the slimmest smartphone with a huge touchscreen battery life is going to be a problem. 5 hours of talktime is not the lowest in the class as it still beats the Motorola Q but it will surely be a turn off for heavy users.

3) No Expansion slot - 8 GB is a lot of memory but sometimes we cant get enough of it as you wont be deleting "Lost" to accomodate some new movie this is when a Memory card comes in the picture.

2) No 3G - Sure it does has EDGE and Wi-Fi but adding UMTS or HSCSD would not hurt either.

1) Non Removable battery - Apple's tradition of non-removable battery continues with the iPhone. Mr Jobs we know that Mac OS X is pretty stable but it is definitely not perfect so what do we do if the phone freezes, as removing the battery is the only option to get it started again. Smartphones are prone to such problems and as you start filling up the onboard memory the chances of the phone freezing increase dramatically.


Critics reviews of the iPhone have consistently been poor. As I noted, you are welcome to worship anything you wish. Doing so does not make it a sound decision.







I’m not even going to attempt to stay away from such an audacious and unprovoked attack on a device I worship. :)

[greenblood]

:( You're welcome to buy a lame, blind horse but that doesn't make it a wise idea.

It is interesting that you take efforts to point out how much you "worship" the iPhone but don't defend the statement with anything concrete. I'm not surprised. As a famous man once said: "Baloney knows it better avoid the meat grinder."

Across the Internet, the critical reviews have been very harsh about the iPhone. Of course Steve Jobs' cult worshippers could be counted on to rush out and stand in line for days to pay big money to buy dog droppings if Mr. Jobs packaged his dog poopie with an Apple logo and told his culties that that it was the coolest thing to buy. The mindless robots that follow this man are amazing to watch. MadTV did a hillarious skit on this. I recommend it heartily for a good laugh. It can be accessed here ... YouTube - Madtv iphone (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xgZKjJt-TkU)

There are countless writeups on shortcomings of the iPhone. You may access the following link to several reviewers talking about this flawed product ... YouTube - iPhone trashed by Robert Scoble and others @ ces in bloghaus (http://youtube.com/watch?v=2aRK0_YZDt4&mode=related&search)=

There are reasons many business resource authorities have recommended a "no buy" on the iPhone. Here are a few reasons ...

Top 5 Technical drawbacks of the iPhone

Never before has the launch of a mobile phone generated so much buzz than with the iPhone which marks Apple's entry into the cell phone market. Steve Jobs has high hopes for the iPhone and plans to capture 1% of the mobile phone market which may seem small, but it is not as 1 billion handsets were sold last year which would mean 10 million iPhones, not to mention that it is an expensive phone at $499. Coming back to the topic here are the Top 5 technical drawbacks of the iPhone.

5) 2 Megapixel camera - Apple did put all the latest stuff from accelerometers to light sensors then why stick to a dated 2 Megapixel sensor when its main rival the Nokia N95 sports a 5 Megapixel camera.

4) Battery Life - It is much obvious that when you have the slimmest smartphone with a huge touchscreen battery life is going to be a problem. 5 hours of talktime is not the lowest in the class as it still beats the Motorola Q but it will surely be a turn off for heavy users.

3) No Expansion slot - 8 GB is a lot of memory but sometimes we cant get enough of it as you wont be deleting "Lost" to accomodate some new movie this is when a Memory card comes in the picture.

2) No 3G - Sure it does has EDGE and Wi-Fi but adding UMTS or HSCSD would not hurt either.

1) Non Removable battery - Apple's tradition of non-removable battery continues with the iPhone. Mr Jobs we know that Mac OS X is pretty stable but it is definitely not perfect so what do we do if the phone freezes, as removing the battery is the only option to get it started again. Smartphones are prone to such problems and as you start filling up the onboard memory the chances of the phone freezing increase dramatically.


Critics reviews of the iPhone have consistently been poor. As I noted, you are welcome to worship anything you wish. Doing so does not make it a sound decision.

you miss one thing, which is a key requirement to purchase a phone (and a reason why I didn't go to Sprint): bt tethering
without this function, no deal at all, NO EXCEPTION

[darkjedi]

BT tethering is hardly a reason to purchase a phone or in that case, not purchase a piece of equipment.

Greenblood you have a hard time distinguishing between what YOU need in a cellphone and what others care for. Your needs are far out pacing those of the traditional cell phone user and even what might be considered a power user with email and internet services. What YOU care for others do not, most care about aesthetics more so than they care about BT tethering. Most couldn't tell you what BT tethering is much less care for the advanced feature.

[greenblood]

BT tethering is hardly a reason to purchase a phone or in that case, not purchase a piece of equipment.

Greenblood you have a hard time distinguishing between what YOU need in a cellphone and what others care for. Your needs are far out pacing those of the traditional cell phone user and even what might be considered a power user with email and internet services. What YOU care for others do not, most care about aesthetics more so than they care about BT tethering. Most couldn't tell you what BT tethering is much less care for the advanced feature.

I use a cellphone to make a call like others
however, I have more to do with phone: internet
I used to have smartphone/PDA phone, it may be conveient to have a single device that does everything
however, I soon realize using such device I have to compromise everything, then I go back to "phone as modem", and let another PDA or laptop takes care of the rest
then wireless tethering (through bt) is one of requirement, because it looks awful to have a lot of cables tangle my body, luckily, 99% of phones have bt tethering, then I seldom mention this requirement, till iPhone comes out
bt OBEX is another requirement, transferring phone numbers among devices (phone, pda, computer) is not easy, OBEX can make things easier, and less mistake (I usually share phonebook through OBEX for single name), bt sync is also my requirement for transferring several numbers at a time, though I use it rarely
in short, full functional bluetooth is another key requirement for purchasing a phone (including tethering), and this is a main reason I wouldn't sign up Sprint or VZW, or getting iPhone (I'm not gonna get it anyway)

[darkjedi]

I use a cellphone to make a call like others
however, I have more to do with phone: internet
I used to have smartphone/PDA phone, it may be conveient to have a single device that does everything
however, I soon realize using such device I have to compromise everything, then I go back to "phone as modem", and let another PDA or laptop takes care of the rest
then wireless tethering (through bt) is one of requirement, because it looks awful to have a lot of cables tangle my body, luckily, 99% of phones have bt tethering, then I seldom mention this requirement, till iPhone comes out
bt OBEX is another requirement, transferring phone numbers among devices (phone, pda, computer) is not easy, OBEX can make things easier, and less mistake (I usually share phonebook through OBEX for single name), bt sync is also my requirement for transferring several numbers at a time, though I use it rarely
in short, full functional bluetooth is another key requirement for purchasing a phone (including tethering), and this is a main reason I wouldn't sign up Sprint or VZW, or getting iPhone (I'm not gonna get it anyway)

Any sensible person reading this would realize that you proved my point. Again you stated YOUR needs and not the needs of the typical user. If I walked up to ten people on the street and asked them if they knew what OBEX was or if bluetooth tethering was they'd look at me like I was crazy.

I understand what requirements you have in a cell phone, I have for some time now and thats fine and nobody is saying you are wrong for wanting a more powerful device. I'm merely stating that you should look at what others need when determining what service and handset works best for them.

[greenblood]

I'm not gonna argue for that
everybody had its own reason/purpose to get a phone and/or service
even 20kbps streaming audio works fine with old school GPRS
if I have more pay, I may change carrier, or keep more than one postpaid carriers
I'm not gonna just sit at home to go online, I like to take internet out of my home for less
but currently I'm not getting Sprint due to phone crippling/no foreign phone problem, and I want to stay with GSM/UMTS

[darkjedi]

I'm not gonna argue for that
everybody had its own reason/purpose to get a phone and/or service
even 20kbps streaming audio works fine with old school GPRS
if I have more pay, I may change carrier, or keep more than one postpaid carriers
I'm not gonna just sit at home to go online, I like to take internet out of my home for less
but currently I'm not getting Sprint due to phone crippling/no foreign phone problem, and I want to stay with GSM/UMTS

No I agree with you in every aspect and I agree with you without conditions. For me its either Cingular(I know I know!) or T-mobile for the bluetooth freedom as well as the unlocked aspect. If those policies ever caved to a more Verizon like experience, then I would rethink my next move. Until that point, I'm satisfied knowing that I have the option to switch phones at will.

[wirelessforever]

Our friend darkjedi makes excellent points.

I had the opportunity to play with a friend's iPhone the other day. While I did not attempt to tether my computer to it, I did play with most of the functions and I had a hard time identifying anything it could do that my Razr V3i could not do. Now of course the iPhone as "eye candy" creates a visual experience the Razr can't duplicate but aside from eye candy, I couldn't find anything it could do that a well programmed Razr couldn't do.

With regard to Mr. Greenblood's tethering needs, my Razr will of course allow me to instantly connect my computer to the Internet but why this is such an important focus for him is not really clear. The best computer connecting to the best cell phone on the best network is still painfully slow compared to a WiFi connection. Most companies and most offices I visit have WiFi capability. I can usually get a WiFi connection without any trouble. While I have the ability to tether my computer and my cell phone, I can't remember the last time I needed to.


Any sensible person reading this would realize that you proved my point. Again you stated YOUR needs and not the needs of the typical user. If I walked up to ten people on the street and asked them if they knew what OBEX was or if bluetooth tethering was they'd look at me like I was crazy.

I understand what requirements you have in a cell phone, I have for some time now and thats fine and nobody is saying you are wrong for wanting a more powerful device. I'm merely stating that you should look at what others need when determining what service and handset works best for them.

[Matt]

That is a good point wirelessforever. I have not had to tether in months. Luckily, here in Portland, free wifi is everywhere. Even some bars I have been into. Airports, hotels, offices, coffee shops, restaurants, etc. I don't understand the fixation on tethering. More so at EDGE speeds.

[greenblood]

Wirelessly posted (Dell X50v and/or SE K790a: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; PPC; 240x320))

Our friend darkjedi makes excellent points.

I had the opportunity to play with a friend's iPhone the other day. While I did not attempt to tether my computer to it, I did play with most of the functions and I had a hard time identifying anything it could do that my Razr V3i could not do. Now of course the iPhone as "eye candy" creates a visual experience the Razr can't duplicate but aside from eye candy, I couldn't find anything it could do that a well programmed Razr couldn't do.

With regard to Mr. Greenblood's tethering needs, my Razr will of course allow me to instantly connect my computer to the Internet but why this is such an important focus for him is not really clear. The best computer connecting to the best cell phone on the best network is still painfully slow compared to a WiFi connection. Most companies and most offices I visit have WiFi capability. I can usually get a WiFi connection without any trouble. While I have the ability to tether my computer and my cell phone, I can't remember the last time I needed to.


Any sensible person reading this would realize that you proved my point. Again you stated YOUR needs and not the needs of the typical user. If I walked up to ten people on the street and asked them if they knew what OBEX was or if bluetooth tethering was they'd look at me like I was crazy.

I understand what requirements you have in a cell phone, I have for some time now and thats fine and nobody is saying you are wrong for wanting a more powerful device. I'm merely stating that you should look at what others need when determining what service and handset works best for them.

internet at work is 100% blocked, can do nothing, and no public wifi around, the ONLY internet I can use at work is GPRS/EDGE, and pda tethered with phone
I also listen internet radio on the street, then wifi is not an option for me, that's why I need a consistent internet connection

[redwildebeast]

lets try to meander on back to the original topic please.

[j__1]

I really think its a sad reflection when at our last district meeting a show of hands was asked for based on how many reps think T-mobile has the best wireless service in the Chicago land area. There were 35 people in the room and 9 raised their hands and that was mostly managers who have so bought into the corporate garbage they wouldn't know bad service from good service if it was stuck to their forehead.
This is why I LOVE forums.... and I always enjoyed each and every e-mail, SMS or phone call I received from a RSM or RSR (even if there were too many to respond to.)

It simply comes down to perspectives that forced me to think differently... and in doing so, helped me to articulate and evangelize. I truly hope that at least a few employees at the FSC and in the field still pay attention to these forums

Back to your meeting, this is what I see:
1) T-Mobile Values (i.e., don't agree when you don't.)
2a) A conflict of interest... If the managers state they don't believe in the cause, they may give up control of their destiny (i.e., against the Values... on all sides.)
2b) Some believe in TMO.

[darkjedi]

This is why I LOVE forums.... and I always enjoyed each and every e-mail, SMS or phone call I received from a RSM or RSR (even if there were too many to respond to.)

It simply comes down to perspectives that forced me to think differently... and in doing so, helped me to articulate and evangelize. I truly hope that at least a few employees at the FSC and in the field still pay attention to these forums

Back to your meeting, this is what I see:
1) T-Mobile Values (i.e., don't agree when you don't.)
2a) A conflict of interest... If the managers state they don't believe in the cause, they may give up control of their destiny (i.e., against the Values... on all sides.)
2b) Some believe in TMO.

I think the real value out of that meeting was the honesty and integrity shown by those who were able to stand up, stick to their guns and give and blatant response. Its almost as if a Toyota dealer can sell a car knowing the product is good and has a lot of value but a Mercedes dealer knows the product is better. Thats not to say that some don't find more value in Toyota. Its a blanket statement to push that T-mobile isn't as good as others because thats not true. Its well known that T-mobile is very strong in say California yet Att has a terrible reputation there. Yet in South Florida, while att isn't the best by any means down there no matter how large their market share they are much better than T-mobile even on their worst day.

I'm not sure if you are being critical of the values or not and I don't mean that in an argumentative way at all. I really just can't tell if you are merely stating opinion or if you are taking a stance?

[kinjutsu11]

I think the real value out of that meeting was the honesty and integrity shown by those who were able to stand up, stick to their guns and give and blatant response. Its almost as if a Toyota dealer can sell a car knowing the product is good and has a lot of value but a Mercedes dealer knows the product is better. Thats not to say that some don't find more value in Toyota. Its a blanket statement to push that T-mobile isn't as good as others because thats not true. Its well known that T-mobile is very strong in say California yet Att has a terrible reputation there. Yet in South Florida, while att isn't the best by any means down there no matter how large their market share they are much better than T-mobile even on their worst day.

I'm not sure if you are being critical of the values or not and I don't mean that in an argumentative way at all. I really just can't tell if you are merely stating opinion or if you are taking a stance?

I might have to disagree with you on the South Florida statement. Although there are more ATT customers down here, T-Mobile has fewer dropped calls in this area, primarily in the Miami market. I've lived here for 8 years and have had T-Mobile ever since and i rarely ever get a dropped call, and same is true for a bunch of other customers in this area. Granted, lots of customers are choosing ATT for 3G, and in the north, around North Palm Beach, any GSM carrier is not so good, so you see a lot of Verizons up there.

[darkjedi]

I might have to disagree with you on the South Florida statement. Although there are more ATT customers down here, T-Mobile has fewer dropped calls in this area, primarily in the Miami market. I've lived here for 8 years and have had T-Mobile ever since and i rarely ever get a dropped call, and same is true for a bunch of other customers in this area. Granted, lots of customers are choosing ATT for 3G, and in the north, around North Palm Beach, any GSM carrier is not so good, so you see a lot of Verizons up there.

In my experience T-mobile just wasn't really very good. I used to spend alot of time around Aventura/Sunny Isles Beach at my ex-girlfriends and the signal there just wasn't very reliable. West of 441 forget it, T-mobile would go in and out. I just didn't find the service to be up to par, yet again I emphasize the opposite is true is places like Cali where T-mobile is often called top dog.

[kinjutsu11]

Well, i'll admit a year or two ago, T-Mobile was struggling, but since last year, its been great!

[j__1]

I'm not sure if you are being critical of the values or not and I don't mean that in an argumentative way at all. I really just can't tell if you are merely stating opinion or if you are taking a stance?
I'm certainly not being critical of the values.... I'm critical of their implementation.

The question they posed at the meeting was loaded and BS... as you articulated so eloquently. My point is, I don't blame the managers for buying into the company line... at least in front of their managers. I know this isn’t in line with the values… but these be challenging times.

Especially these days... See, they started at the C-level several years ago, moved down to the VPs, wiped out just about all of the Directors, and just recently moved down to the Market Managers. Can you guess who is next? Your VP of Retail HR continues to execute his people plan. By the time he's done, TMO USA Retail will be Gateway Retail... with an Eddie Bauer frosting.

Being a manager isn't all about leaving early and charging the company for your lunch... Often, it can be about saving your own ass and vying for the next promotion... all while running interference so your peeps can get their jobs done. And the farther you move up... the more time you gots to spend on interference and ass-grabbing. It’s not a TMO thing… I think it’s just people.

.

[j__1]

:( You're welcome to buy a lame, blind horse but that doesn't make it a wise idea.

It is interesting that you take efforts to point out how much you "worship" the iPhone but don't defend the statement with anything concrete. I'm not surprised. As a famous man once said: "Baloney knows it better avoid the meat grinder."I don't have to back up my statement with anything more "concrete" than what I originally stated... If you would like more detail on my thoughts, please feel free to click on my user name and search through all of my posts.

Besides, even you are welcome to your opinion... at least in this forum. :p

[L7jr]

I find it humourous that one person walks by ONE corporate store and comes to the determination that tmobile, as a whole entity, is doomed. Did the OP ever think that maybe it was an off day for the store or that the specific employee that they spoke too had not done any activations since they were there.

Maybe I walked in the morning to activate and that employee wasn't there. They would never know.

In regards to tmobile as a company in the US; DT has invested too much money to just let it become crap. Yes, their service isn't always the greatest when indoors, but the excellent customer service, cheap plans, and GSM technology (ie SIIM Card) are enough pluses for me to stay with them.

Many people also forget, that T-Mobile US is the youngest carrier out of the major players (AT&T, Verizon, Sprint/Nextel).

I think T-Mobile is doing well for themselves considering how new as a company they are here in the states. In addition, anyone who lives in NYC knows that T-Mobile works fairly well. I'm sure not many subscribers (ie average consumer) know that T-Mobile is only working with 10mhz of spectrum here in the NYC area. That is a very small amount of spectrum when compared to Verizon and AT&T.

This is my first post on this site, other than my introduction thread, but when reading this thread it got me aggravated that one person sees one empty store and comes to a conclusion that T-Mobile is going down. I like T-Mobile as a company and feel that time is of the essence and patience is a virtue when it comes waiting for new phones or 3G.

[Railroader]

Let's just hope Bones never has to say-

http://ricksegal.typepad.com/pmv/bones_small.jpg


T-Mobile is dead, Jim :D ;)

[jjj]

TMO USA will be just fine

[gapboi954]

I think the real value out of that meeting was the honesty and integrity shown by those who were able to stand up, stick to their guns and give and blatant response. Its almost as if a Toyota dealer can sell a car knowing the product is good and has a lot of value but a Mercedes dealer knows the product is better. Thats not to say that some don't find more value in Toyota. Its a blanket statement to push that T-mobile isn't as good as others because thats not true. Its well known that T-mobile is very strong in say California yet Att has a terrible reputation there. Yet in South Florida, while att isn't the best by any means down there no matter how large their market share they are much better than T-mobile even on their worst day.

I'm not sure if you are being critical of the values or not and I don't mean that in an argumentative way at all. I really just can't tell if you are merely stating opinion or if you are taking a stance?


i tend to disagree with you. T-Mobile has the best service in the Miami area. ATT and Sprint and Verizon have terrible service down here. Most of my family have converted to T-Mobile from Cingular and Sprint because of the bas service in So Fla